Rasa Rasika: Just try to arrange your day so that the first thing you do is chant your rounds...whatever that takes....go to bed earlier.

RK: but now completing the remaining beads left day by day

RasaRasika: "Chanting japa should be done early in the morning with full concentration preferably during the Brahma Muhurta time. Concentrate fully on the sound vibration of the mantra, pronouncing each name distinctly and gradually your speed in chanting will increase naturally. Do not worry so much about chanting fast, most important is the hearing." Srila Prabhupada 6/1/72

RK: actually I was in the colleg for the whole 2 dayz...i didn;t hv my bead bag wityh me..that's wy

Rasa Rasika: If you forget your beads you can actually use your fingers, there are three divisions on each finger that you count with your thumb (4 x 3 = 12) and on the other hand count 9....4 x 3 x 9 = 108

R: this room really is a great encouragement in chanting Japa

R: i dont remember,is chanting mentally the same as chanting out loud

Rasa Rasika: Mental chanting can be done outside the time we chant on beads....SP recommended for us to audibly chant the Holy names.

RasaRasika: "The first regulative principle is that one must chant the Hare Krsna maha-mantra loudly enough so that he can hear himself, and one must vow to chant a fixed number of rounds." Sri Caitanya caritamrta Antya-lila 11.24

M: I think that the most important thing to do is really get absorbed in the sound completely

AD: nice quote

R: so you say that there is an a as in day sound in Hare on the e in Hare?

Rasa Rasika: Yes correct, I find it of great benefit to listen to SP's Japa recording (the slow one) and you can get a good idea of the pronounciation.

AD: Do you have any experience of yours to share, when you started chanting, when did you get more concerned about your japa

Rasa Rasika: I personally started reforming my Japa many years ago and found that I had to slow down my chanting, right down to 10 mins per round (SP recommends not longer than 10 mins per round)...this enabled me to work on my pronounciation and I also starting hearing properly...to the sound vibration, which helps to counteract the wandering mind.

A: these days i have to struggle with my japa i cannot concentrate

A: my mind is wandering yes there r other things on my mind although i do my japa early @ 5am

Rasa Rasika: Devotee: "Srila Prabhupäda, it's very difficult to control my mind when I chant. It wanders.

Srila Prabhupada: "So what is the controlling of mind? You have to chant and hear. That is all. You have to chant with your tongue, and the sound you hear. What is the question of mind?"

RK: Is it neceassry to complete all ur rounds in a single sitting?

Rasa Rasika: Yes it's better to chant all your rounds in one sitting, it increases your chances to get in the zone and be able to capitalise on good consciousness when you're on a roll

RK: YES, I ill try..Thnks for the answer.....

R: what do you know about sitting while chanting or walking while chanting?Any difference

Rasa Rasika: It depends on the individual...some find sitting better but others fall asleep whilst sitting...if this is the case then you should walk around, whatever facilitates good Japa is desirable.

RK: What r the symptoms of one's getting into samadhi or progressing towards the samadhi stage?

Rasa Rasika: There are many symptoms that can be experienced, shivering of the body, crying uncontrollably, hair standing on end, a feeling of separation from Krsna etc. the main thing is to get the basics right first...SP has given us basic guidelines so that we can chant without offense....if we continue to avoid offenses and follow these guidelines, then naturally we will make progress towards samadhi.

RK: Can't ny1 reach this stage while still living in ghrahastya?

Rasa Rasika: Yes, regardless of asrama or varna, if we just chant very seriously then we will make progress to this stage...the main thing is that whatever situation we find ourselves in, if we chant the Hare Krsna mantra with great concentration and sincerity, then we can develop love of Krsna.

RK: wat's the max time 1 must chant out his 1 round??

Rasa Rasika: SP recommends not more than 10 mins per round.

A: i have lot of reforming to do before the next session. I take abt 6 mins to chant a round

Rasa Rasika: The main thing is to preserve good and clear pronounciation and hearing is the main thing for this....if it means slowing down your chanting then you can do that.

Rasa Rasika: "...Concentrate fully on the sound vibration of the mantra, pronouncing each name distinctly and gradually your speed in chanting will increase naturally. Do not worry so much about chanting fast, most important is the hearing." Srila Prabhupada 6/1/72

RK: I can't concenterate on all the words equally..particularly "hare" word..at other times sometimes i hear krishna word n sometimes rama word

Rasa Rasika: It's a matter of focusing the mind on the whole mantra...if you hear properly then that will be balanced.

R: at the first time when I chanted ,it took me about 15 minutes to complete a round

RK: I took me 45 min ..I chanted really slowly really concenterating very very hard on each word

RK: first time

RK: 2 rounds i think

R: my problems are either skipping beads or repeating a mantra on the same bead

Rasa Rasika: Then you may need to concentrate more and make sure this doesn't occur.....or get larger beads if your fingers are too big.

RK: I skip hare word a lot..

Rasa Rasika: Just concentrate very seriously on what you are chanting, it's very important to chant all the words clearly.

AD: How can we see our advancement as something natural, and not being anxious to feel attration to the Holy names faster

Rasa Rasika: Have faith that the Lord will bestow upon you spiritual advancement, as long as we are making a serious effort and are sincere, then Krsna will reward us accordingly. Krsna will bestow on us attraction for the Holy name if we are making an effort with our Japa.

RK: Im seeing improvement in my memory n thinking skills

AD: Does faith develop with determination on chanting .

Rasa Rasika: Faith comes from experiencing first hand the effects of chanting the Hare Krsna mantra, then our determination to continue comes from that faith and direct realisation.

R: If we make offense to Hare Krishna ,then its to Hare Krishna we must go for relief.

Rasa Rasika: Yes, by improving our Japa and continuing to chant, avoiding offenses, then we will get relief

RK: Is it ok FOR sm1 to chant japa if he is not interested in doing japa on bead?

Rasa Rasika: Beads are the best, I personally find it helps with concentration, also if they are Tulasi beads then you get the benefit of contact with the body of a pure devotee. Fingers can also be used as mentioned before.

RK: 1 of my friend chant like this

R: the name is actually a physical taste?

Rasa Rasika: The taste is a spiritual one not material....the taste comes from Krsna directly and he bestows that upon us when He sees our effort

AD: Talking about offense , how can we chant without wandering minds if we have commited an offense even , without having noticed

Rasa Rasika: Yes, we can still be committing offenses even if our mind isn't wandering...for instance to blaspheme a devotee who is chanting the Holy names of the Lord....if we continue to offend devotees then we are being offensive to the Holy names regardless if our mind is wandering or not.

RK: Today's japa room was really wonderful..got to know a lot of things..Thanks to rasa for the expalanations n all for their discussions

Rasa Rasika: Thank you all for coming along today, next week is Stage 10, summarization of all the stages.

The Atlanta Temple, his family and friends will be coordinating the funeral service of Harish das. With the passing of our dear friend Hari Kirtan das aka Harish, we stop to pray to the lord for his safe journey home.

Badahari das singing the Nrsimhadev Prayers.

Dallas, TX
2008-03-05

In Vedic times, barter was common and wealth was measured in terms of land and cows.

But Srila Prabhupada thought a gold standard was a good idea for contemporary exchange. Unfortunately the gold standard was degraded to a silver standard and then to a paper standard. One who has vast piles of paper money is considered 'wealthy.'

In more recent times, however, even such paper wealth has been abandoned for electronic storage and transfers.

read more

Harikirtan Prabhu (Harish) is a disciple of H.H Bhakti Tirtha Maharaja. He is very dear to all devotees in general and especially to the Gurukulis as he himself was a Gurukuli.

Harish is remembered as the “winner of all hearts” because of his very lively and loving nature. He is the perfect example for the younger generation in our movement. He is loved by everyone. It is a great loss for us that he is no more with us physically today.

read more

On Friday morning I went to Kate Pell's lead practice at The Yoga Den.

Kate was my yoga teacher in the course I did for Australian yoga teacher certification, and the Friday morning lead practice is basically her personal practice with whoever else wants to take part. It's usually a handful of local yoga teachers, and the two hour class is... well, if Bikram is an AC/DC concert (four on the floor), this is a Dream Theater gig - all kinds of technical stuff, and challenging.

It usually begins with pranayama and seated meditation. This week Kate played Deva Premal's Moola Mantra CD for the twenty minutes that we sat in quiet contemplation.

With the sun streaming in through the windows, the faint sound of birds, the stillness of sitting in the Yoga Den space and this chanting I was in ecstasy.

Being familiar with most of those Sanskrit words I was able to learn the mantra in the 20 minutes that we listened to it. Later in the day I got a copy of the album, and have been listening to it since.

Last night Prahlad and I listened to it while we slept. Normally music or talking (a class or audio book) stimulates my mind and keeps me awake. When I put this - instant alpha wave.

Here it is:

Korábban írtam, hogy elromlott a számítógépem. Kegyetekből és pozitív meditációtok eredényeképpen megjavult, és így sikerült elkészíteni a Bombay News 4. részét.

Ez azért is különleges, mert ebben a részben Srila Radhanatha Maharaja köszönti a magyar bhaktákat. A leckéből 6 percet videó formájában láthattok ebben a newsban. Ezen kívül letölthetitek a vágatlan audió anyagot is. Azt pedig innen tölthetitek le.

A magyar bhakták közül Damodara prabhu osztja meg veletek tapasztalatait.

March 27, 3:00 A.M.

The night was calm. I got up at 3:00 A.M. with a clear head. I was feeling a little ambiguous about not going to the Festival of Inspiration. The part of the Bhagavad-gita recitation that caught my attention was the description of the yoga ladder. Prabhupada said that Krishna consciousness, even from the beginning, is at the top of the ladder because one always thinks of Krishna. This resonated with me. It gave me solace that even if I don’t attend the FOI this year, I can be with Krishna in the yellow submarine. He also said that a Krishna conscious person is free of material activities. I began japa at 3:23 A.M.

Early-morning japa log

4:24 A.M.

My first round was slow, but after that, it became extra speedy, averaging under six minutes for each of the eight rounds. I chanted at a whisper, and fast, but paid attention to each syllable of the mantra. I looked over at Radha-Govinda to remind myself that the mantra is not just syllables but persons, Radha and Krishna, Radha and Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Radha Radha. I kept other thoughts out of my mind and dwelt on the accumulation of numbers of mantras and numbers of rounds and time per round. My mood was upbeat, and I was not drowsy but alert. I prayed to feel the mantra, to cry like a child for its mother. The best part of the session was the extra speed. The weakness of the session was that on the eighth round, I got a headache and had to take a medication. The audibility wasn’t very good, either.

Japa should be chanted from the heart, the seat of affections. It is an act of love toward Radha and Krishna. Short of love, it is a pleading. Anything less than that is just reciting the outer covering of the mantras, the syllables without the heart. I should not be satisfied with my little speed rituals in the morning. It is a desperate act, with time running out. When will you love Radha-Krishna while reciting Their names? When will you dare to ask for service? There is a legion of lackadasical chanters, and they are not appreciating suddha nama. I have far to go, but seem stuck in namabhasa. Chanting more is one remedy. Praying at other times for improvement in nama bhajana. Even writing, ask for it.

The Creator Has a Master Plan

A symphonic opening with harsh

tenor of Pharoah Sanders, like

“A Love Supreme.”

A slow, steady procession,

Pharoah stately and heavy,

he tends to screech,

surrounded by flute and

percussion.

He cries, alternating between

smooth notes and screechers,

a religious atmosphere.

The bass is steady, repeating

a spoken vocal:

“Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

the Creator has a working plan,

peace and happiness for every man.

The creator has but one demand,

happiness... to all the land.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.”

He moans and intones it,

the entourage moves slowly

as in a religious procession.

Then he hawks and horns

a finale of improvisation

hallelujah celebrating the Creator

and His master plan.

A lone man with a tenor

sax crying hoarse notes and then

tender ones

with a frantic ending

calling on God by

mortal beings.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oywee, oywee, oywee, oywee,

oh yeah, yeah

yeaaah-yeaaah-yeaaah

honk-screech-

elephants stampede

thundering chaos

choir calls to

God Almighty

from flesh and

blood and spirits

in tongues

you better end it before

it crashes down.

B-Quick

Very rapid Sonny Rollins

improvising notes out of

his intelligent brain and

executing them with his

breath and nimble fingers.

Be-quick rip the succession

of rapid notes backed by

rolling splashing drums and

hurrying bass, a piano comps.

The piano solos with left hand

dancing up and down the upper notes,

occasionally paced with

the right.

Sonny rips and trades fours

with a faster drummer.

Who’s the fastest? You’ve

got to like rapidity to stay

with this.

The trading fours goes on in

a race until the bass comes

trotting in, keeping a pace

that’s hard for him to finger.

The exchange goes on, almost

too much to bear. But he

proves he can move with

the quickest and sounds

true.

The trading’s the essence,

a horn and drums,

back and forth, no

one hogging the space.

But Sonny’s dominant

and wriggles bars of sound

at top speed until the end.

No let up for the player

or the hearers, he works

and fingers his way

through a network of blues.

Be-quick.

10:30 A.M.

Looking back into my “past life,” EJW, Vol. 54, The Man Who Does What He Wants. (I wonder why I picked that title? It doesn’t seem fitting. Maybe if I read the whole book, it would make sense.) My life isn’t full of adventures. At least not outward ones. Lots of adventures in the art room at Wicklow. Early in the morning I wrote while reading the sastras. Wrote scriptural conclusions and paraphrases. Then I went for a walk, chanting. Followed the schedule. In the evening, I wrote night notes. Then the next morning, 1:00 A.M., more writing from the scriptures.

I said I wanted snail-mail only

and liked the privacy.

The primitive paintings are reproduced

in the three-copies books in full color, look good.

You have to accept them in

their primitive poverty,

then they’re fine.

Taking pills for headaches,

arguing against rebound reformers,

bathing and dressing Their Lordships

Radha-Govinda.

Liking Syamananda, but later

I discharged him because he

was too restless and always wanted

to go away to photography school

or dance school. He cried

when I fired him.

1:30 P.M.

My dear Lord Krishna...

I don’t want to exaggerate my love for You. I really don’t know what it amounts to. I think of things beside Yourself. My pains distract me from Your lotus feet. But I think I have a hidden, secret love that’s deep. It’s covered by trivialities and the modes of nature, but it’s underneath. A subterranean love that goes deep, because I am made in Your image. One has to be pure to associate with the Pure. I have to cross through the fire to reach You, my impurities burnt away. The core of my being is a lover of Krishna. For now, he’s covered over by mud.

I believe in my love for You. Srila Prabhupada has placed the seeds, called bhakti-lata-bija. A devotional creeper will grow by the watering method of chanting and hearing. The creeper must be protected from the mad elephant and other offenders. It needs strong fencing around. How is my bhakti-lata doing? Is it stunted? Is it dry? Does it have a chance of flourishing, like a healthy tulasi plant in a favorable climate, protected from bugs, and growing purple manjaris?

You are lovable. You possess all strength, all knowledge, all beauty, all fame, and all renunciation. You’re handsome, with Your lotus feet, Your body covered in a glittering yellow dhoti (pitambara), the Kaustubha gem on a necklace, a garland of five colored flowers, a broad chest, strong arms, a beautiful, smiling face, lovely teeth, curly locks of blackish hair, and a helmet crowned with a peacock feather.

You have all good qualities. You welcome us to live with You in Your abode of eternity, bliss and knowledge in our spiritual forms. But You do not force us to love You. That would not be true love. You allow us a minute amount of free will whereby we may choose our destinies. You allow us to come to the material world to try to carry out our misbegotten plans to be lords of all we survey—but You come Yourself and send Your representatives to warn us not to try to be masters but to serve You. That will be our happiness, if we choose it.

You attract us by Your pastimes performed on this earth (nara-lila) and by Your instructions in books of wisdom like Bhagavad-gita. You bring us into the association of a bona fide spiritual master. You descend in Deity form (arca-vigraha). As You state in Bhagavad-gita, “As they approach Me, I reciprocate accordingly.” So if we show a little faith, You strengthen it. If we associate with devotees, You make it a cause for our enlivenment in devotional service. If we take vows of initiation, You help us follow them unerringly. And You make this reciprocation not merely in a fifty-fifty way. Rather, if we take one step toward You, You take ten steps toward us.

You have come to us in the form of Lord Caitanya, who propagated the chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra. This is the easiest and the only way by which one can attain God consciousness in the present age of Kali, when all spiritual potencies are reduced. Chanting Hare Krishna is the only process possible for us, and You have kindly distributed it widely. You have also asked us to take up Your mission of engaging others in chanting the holy names, and thus You enlist us in the highest possible welfare work in the world.

So yes, I love You for all these reasons and many, many more. I have not awakened to full love for You, and that is my misfortune. I still have unwanted things that are holding me back. I don’t chant Your names free of the ten offenses. I don’t have the symptoms of bhava or prema, the topmost stages of love of God. I regret my shortcomings and desire to overcome them. I want to love You as Christ advised, “with my whole heart, with my whole mind, and with my whole body.” I have a long way to go, and I humbly request You to help me grow in love for You. The devotional creeper, the bhakti-lata, is meant to grow until it pierces all the coverings of the material world and enters Your spiritual abode. I want to love You so much that I can attain that abode.

Narasingha Guru das, author of an upcoming book about institutional dogma which addresses Darwin and evolution [read an excerpt], writes:

Philosophically, it is not hard to understand how Darwinian evolution and transmigration of the soul are incompatible - karma demands that all possible material situations are already existing for the soul to enter whatever body type is appropriate.

I'm assuming "Darwinian evolution" here to mean Darwin's general theory of evolution [see here for a definition of Darwin's two different theories of evolution - the special and general]

I've asked Narasingha Guru for a citation to establish the point that "karma demands all possible material situations to be already existing".

Ongoing Species Extinction and Creation

Empirically speaking, the fossil record indicates that all possible material situations are not extant on this planet all the time. Scientists have recorded at least seven extinction events [wikipedia], where large numbers of species (up to 96% for the largest, the Permian-Triassic extinction event [wikipedia]) cease to exist in the fossil record. These species are no longer found in the contemporary environment either. A more "recent" example (relatively speaking) would be the Creataceous-Tertiary extinction event [wikipedia], 65 million years ago, which saw the end of the dinosaurs.

Extinction events are interesting not only because they see the end of the manifestation of many species on this planet, but also because they see the rise of new ones. So seven extinction events also implies seven different "creation" events, where new species are somehow either evolved by natural forces, or else brought into being by some other as yet unexplained mechanism.

Other Worlds

At the same time, with millions of planets in this universe, the loss of a species on the Earth does not mean that the opportunity does not exist for a jiva to incarnate in that species on another planet.

In fact, the Caitanya Caritamrita (Madhya-lila 19.151) describes just such a scenario:

According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Krishna. By the mercy of both Krishna and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service.

The word brahmanda means "universe".

The Earth could be unpopulated by humans for billions of years. In that time humans could have lived on Mars, Venus, or planets orbiting other stars. If a requirement exists for humans to always exist, it will be also necessary to demonstrate that sastra requires them to always exist on this planet.

At the same time, empirical evidence may be found that they have always existed on this planet. Some people make an argument for this, but it is not widely accepted at this point in time by the scientific community.

A Digression into the Journey of the Jiva Through Species

Karma is a complex subject. In Bhagavad-gita (4.16) Krishna says:

Even the intelligent are bewildered in understanding what is karma and what is not karma

The mechanisms by which living entities obtain their bodies are explained in chapter 15 of Bhagavad-gita. By current scientific standards these would be considered metaphysical, although in Vedic terms it is physical (karma) rather than transcendental (akarma), which is the Vedic standard of metaphysics.

Bhagavad-gita 8.6 outlines the central principle of metempsychosis, or transmigration of the soul:

Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, O son of Kunti, that state he will attain without fail.

This is the general principle for transmigration of the soul, applying to all material bodies.

An example of this principle at work in the animal kingdom is given in Srimad Bhagavatam 11.9.23:

O King, once a wasp forced a weaker insect to enter his hive and kept him trapped there. In great fear the weak insect constantly meditated upon his captor, and without giving up his body, he gradually achieved the same state of existence as the wasp. Thus one achieves a state of existence according to one's constant concentration.

Conclusion

Given the empirical evidence it appears that not all species are manifested all the time on Earth.

If the Vedic model requires that all species always be manifest, the empirical situation does not present a problem, as there are infinite planets in the universe where other species can be manifest.

The empirical situation of repeated extinctions and repopulations by different species on Earth requires a mechanism by which development of different species happens.

The central idea of general evolutionary theory (both Darwin's or the more recent Punctuated Equilibrium) is that it occurs by natural processes. This is confirmed by Bhagavad-gita 9.10.

So I don't think that the general theory of evolution (that natural processes cause the development of species) and transmigration of the soul are incompatible philosophically - at least not based on this point.

Tuesday, 20th Jan, 2009. Bam! KG’s phone was waking me up. Sweet catch up sleep was on the agenda so I slammed that thing off and went back into the tama sack. I awoke an hour or two later. I did some reading before deity greetings and a wapping Sri Prahlad kirtana. KG and HH Bhaktisidhanta Swami were going at it in the kirtana before he sat down to dish out the class (the Swami that is).

It was time to readopt the philosophy that life was a game, full of quests, experience and general time conception. So me and Harry were off for a quest. We stopped at the tram for a side quest, to score some liquorice. We bumped into some devotees also heading into the city by the tram, as you do. I thrice tried to reject my shrapnel on the tram ticket machine but it rejected it once I had loaded it with a large collection of coinage.

We stopped at Crossways for some halava and custard, and to meet Harry’s little bro. We met up with Kana also and some other Kuli. We took some Crossways cards for some kicksies on the way to hand out. I was full of false ego so no one was that interested in my little cards but I was just making a game out of it. We made our way back into Fitzroy fortress. Our main mission for the day was to take down the blinders we forgot, these were big sheets of black plastic all over the windows. We spent a short time throwing balls of plastic around and then we left feeling that the theatre was haunted.

We found some forest and garden to chill, try chant and feel like we were still in a game. Domo called and we hit the No1 tram back to home. It was time for a trip with the boys to the beach. Harry, Mathur, Domo, Sri P and I all hit the surf. We played and frolicked in the water throwing around a big container as a ball. On the way back we finally collaborated the ultimate tour quest. A mission that had sprouted something like a month before. Was it time? “Do you really want to do it?” asked Domo to the pack. There was full agreement. As soon as we decided Domo went into Domo mode…I was shocked. He had been thinking this up. He gave me some orders and we got to it.

By the time it was organized it was Gaura Hari driving, Harry and I in the back. It was just us. Just us and the Esky that is. He dropped us off like parachute soldiers on Coles. We hit the freezers for a bag of ice. Than we hit the merchandise…I did the maths. “15 boxes will do” I said. We tore through boxes and secured the ice and the prize in the esky on the way back to base. Harry carried the holy esky up to the boy’s room. A mysterious assembly…assembled. The chest of treasure was revealed and was offered to the Lord. There were 60 assorted magnum ice creams - almond and whites. It was ice cream competition time!

Domo got the archana cup; he was the official server. They came out one per head. They were fresh cold each time due to the ice and esky. I thought I would smash it up to about 4 and then slug it out from there but I was feeling it after 2. There was no time for “preparations” before the comp so whatever stomach room one had was what he had to work with.

It went on and on. I was staring my ice creams down. There were pull outs and it was being broadcasted on face book, live. I was ready to drop at 8 but I took the unanimous decision of the group to go one more…I was ready to pull out at 7 but I pulled out at 8 so I felt I had done my share. I tied with Mathuranatha, Sri P had pulled off at a casual 3 to broadcast the glories of the competition…Domo, Harry and Gaura Hari were left. Gaura settled for 9, Harry hit 10 and Domo came out of the last place into the first at 12!!

After the competition was over we sent off our remaining ice creams. Domo began his victory dance and we all joined in…it got a little bit out of hand one might say. After some hours recovery I was in good enough shape to honour a feast of prasada. I spent some time on my sadhana and then I hit the sack. Me and Kana chilled in the room. I ordered him to read me a bedtime story and he read away at the sweet nectar of Gita. Then we talked till about 11 with our different realisations. We were scheduled to be in bed early, and we were, but the beauty of Krsna Consciousness had to be admired all the way up into the late hours of the night. Govindaji, Giriraja, ate 60 magnums today…

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.22 -- Indore, December 13, 1970

Badahari das singing the bhajan "Bhaja Bhakata Vatsala Sri Gaura Hari" -- traditionally sung for Bhoga Arati.  Mukunda Datta das playing the Mrdanga.

Dallas, TX
2008-03-05

A little while ago, I wrote an entry entitled “Questioning Srila Prabhupada.” This is the first toe-dipping into that arena.

The quote in question is from Bhagavad-gita 9.32:

O son of Prtha, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth–women, vaisyas [merchants], as well as sudras [workers]–can approach the supreme destination.

What is actually being said is those that take shelter in Krishna can approach the supreme destination. That’s the whole intent of the verse.

Both Krishna (in the original Sanskrit) and Srila Prabhupada (in the translation) mention “women, vaisyas and sudras.”

In the original Sanskrit, it is a list: those of lower birth, women, vaisyas, also sudras. But in Srila Prabhupada’s translation the list is describing “lower birth.” He describes “lower birth” as women, vaisyas and sudras.

This, of course, is where the controversy is.

In no other Gaudiya-Vaisnava translation and commentary that I’ve seen is it translated as such. The verse is a great one. It is saying that love of God is available to anyone without discrimination. However, it also appears that Srila Prabhupada is discriminating against women, vaisyas and sudras, calling them “lower birth.”

To me, this term is not so much insulting as it is truthful. I have always taken it to mean “worse situation from birth.” Technically, the word “papa-yonayah” means “troubled womb.”

If someone is, for instance, born a black woman or in a working class family, it’s probably going to be a tougher life than someone born as a while male in a rich family. That’s just a fact. And technically, one would be a “higher birth” and the other a “lower birth.”

I don’t see this particular verse as Srila Prabhupada saying that “women are worse than men.” The real purport is that everyone is eligible, no matter your social status.

Like I said before, the original Sanskrit and every other translation avoids this confusion and does not claim that “women, vaisyas and sudras” are of a lower birth. But it does mention “papa-yonaya” - basically troubled families.

Why Srila Prabhupada chose to translate it this way is beyond me. While I don’t believe he was exposing a prejudice here, he certainly could have phrased it in a clearer way. After all, this is a very anti-prejudicial statement by Krishna.

Again, my take on it is that women, sudras, people from troubled families or pretty much anyone that’s going to get a crappy end of the stuck due to how they were born and where (black, gay, poor in a place that is prejudiced against them) is, by definition a “lower birth.” It’s not going to be an easy life because of the situation at birth.

“Lower birth” is a material designation, it has nothing to do with the spiritual (as this verse says). However, Srila Prabhupada’s choice to translate it like this could easily turn off women (right away) and workers/farmers when they figure out what “sudras” and “vaisyas” are. Someone could easily take this to mean that Srila Prabhupada is being prejudiced against them - and in his translation that appears to be so.

If he had translated it as it was in Sanskrit and as other acaryas and gurus in our line have translated it, it would be much clearer and wouldn’t require a long explanation.

For complete results and to send in your scores go to www.SankirtanNewsletter.com (password: wsnhome) Deadline for scores is the 15th of the next month.

New Zealanders commonly say, "Good as Gold." It is interesting that goodness is so nonchalantly equated with gold.
In an interesting twist on the importance of money, Srila Prabhupada has interestingly pointed out how worthless money actually is. He told us that one who has a lot of money feels that the money is his most prized possession, and his dearest friend. Yet that very same money, if lost and in the hands of the man's competitor, can be the very same man's worst and most hated and feared enemy.

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We are happy to announce that ISKCON Mayapur has produced full HD DVD of the most spectacular Maha Abhisheka of Sri Pancha Tattva 2009 with enlivening kirtans of HH Radhanath Swami, HH Loknath Swami and HH BB Govinda Swami. The Video is edited now and is sent to Singapore for silver disc.

This DVD is an offering of dedication to HH Jayapataka Swami and will be released during Maharaja’s Vyasa Puja ceremony(2-6 April 2009).

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>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.26.34 -- Bombay, January 11, 1975

Ugy nez ki, hogy a notebookom bedobta a torolkozot. Talan winchester baja van. De lehet, hogy komolyabb.. Az anyagokat otthon archivaltam es a gep meg garancialis. Szoval azok megvannak.
De, ha valami komolyabb a gond, akkor
-ezen a winchesteren volt jo nehany napi video nyersanyag
-Nem tudok itt videokat szerkeszteni
-vasarnap prezentaciot kellene az 1000 fos vasarnapi programra osszeallitanom es a gepen volt minden nyersanyag…

De titokban azert remelem, hogy reggel majd beindul. Ugye nem tunik anyagi vagynak, ha arra vagyom, hogy beinduljon szegeny?

The following e-mail came to my inbox yesterday as part of a discussion between several devotees regarding Srila Prabhupada’s wishes for how initiations would be conducted after his disappearance. I haven’t seen any responses yet, but I found his point of view very relevant. It is reprinted here with permission. Hare Krishna.
……………….

From: Gary Lund (Gauridasa Pandita Dasa)
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:40 PM
To: …
Subject: Re: Proper Initiation

Dear Goura Kesava & all Prabhus,

Please accept my respectful obeisances.
All glories to our jagat guru Srila Prabhupada!

The debate goes on. I’ve been watching on the sidelines this internet istagosthi and now I had to jump in. I will be short and to the point because I am typing on my iphone.

I was personally serving Srila Prabhupada back in 1977 when he first decided he was going to leave the planet. I heard him say that he wanted the ritvik initiation system for his movement after his departure. This is documented in the July 9th 1977 Newsletter to all Temple Presidents and G.B.C.’s. That letter was dictated from a July 7th 1977 Garden conversation which I heard. That is our sastra! That is specific. You say we must follow sastra; there it is. Is there anymore sastra after that date that would change anything?

We need the guru to explain the sastra to us; otherwise we will pick and choose whatever suits us and end up not following the real orders of the spiritual master. Srila Prabhupada warned us about ‘over- intelligence’ and I think that is what we have here. Instead of us trying to figure out how initiations should go on from (which) sastra we should instead try to figure out what our guru said and did. He had the ritvik system up and running for years before he left, physically and he wanted that to continue as he said on July 7th 1977. It’s on tape!

I have been trying to speak to the GBC for 32 years now but so far my requests have fallen on deaf ears. They say they have no time every time every year I ask to attend their meetings to discuss this most important issue. Most of them are initiating on their own so you can imagine why they won’t discuss it. It might mess up their retirement plans. Profit, distinction and of course adoration.

If we leave it up to the new devotees to check out their gurus they will be misled. Then later if their ‘guru’ falls down they will probably be disheartened and leave KRSNA Consciousness altogether as so many have. That is why Srila Prabhupada most intelligently set up the ritvik initiation system for his movement.

If someone wants to be a diksa guru he or she must be able to deliver them back to Godhead. They must have full KRSNA prema. They must do this in their own temples; not Srila Prabhupada’s! That is Vaisnava ettiquette. Srila Prabhupada did not try to become a diksa guru in the Gaudiya Math. The self-efullgent acharya can attract the souls and build his/her movement from the ground up. That’s what Srila Prabhupada the acharya did; that’s what we need to do.

We’ve got guru fever. Sikas gurus we can and should be but diksa guru is one for ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada! It’s simple for some but complicated for the over-intelligent speculators. I hope this helped.

Haven’t seen you for many years since you were with Dristadyumna I’m Hawaii. Glad to see you are hanging in there but have faith in His Divine Grace; he’s there also if you let him.

Hoping this meets you and all the Vaisnavas well and advancing in KC Your servant, Gauridasa Pandita Dasa

Dear Aruna DD,

Trust this mail finds u in the best of everything. Just thought would drop in a mail and tell u things in general.

During the last month, I have visited ISKCON vrindavan two times, the latest of this trip happened last Sunday.
I just didn't have any plan to visit the temple and this Friend of mine had called and he tells me that u wanna go to Vrindavan and I don't know how but that yes automatically came out. this conversation happened at about 12.30 am.
At 1.45 am we started from my place in Gurgaon (a place 25 kms from New Delhi). We had planned that we should be on time for the Mangla Arati (which takes place at 4.30 am). Finally we reached there at 4.10 am just in time for the arati. I had thought that there will not be a lot of people in the temple, since its so early in the morning.

As I stepped in the temple, I knew I was wrong. There were so many devotees and every body had this blissful look on their face. 4.30 am the mangla aarti started, trust me on this I have never seem so many people at once dancing in Ecstasy. After the mangla arati, there was tulsi arati.
Post the arati's we were told about the program for the day, the books sales there were made on the day before, about the srimad bhagvatam class, about the fact that it was ekadeshi and about the temple darshan.

Then there was a small class on methodology of chanting, which I attended. the class was being taken by Narahari dasa, he taught us the methodology of how to chant. thereafter he just asked who all chants, and I raised my hand. He just looked at me and said that I will talk to you in the end, please wait on the side if you are not in a hurry (which I was surely not).

Meanwhile he attended to other people, I was just soaking in the environment and honestly I felt that may be I should be here and live in this temple. I don't know the reason why I felt like that.
Then I had a conversation with Narahari dasa, he asked me how frequently I chant and how many rounds, do Iread / study the Bhagavad Gita daily etc. I told him about you that I have this friend of mine who is a devotee. I try and read her blog on a daily basis, and I didn't like to miss it. I also told him that you had suggested that I should start with doing four rounds daily. I told him that I do it off and on and there is no regularity in my chanting, to which he said that you just need to make up your mind, decide and be firm on it. He asked that i should commit and I stick to the number of rounds that I commit for, so I happily committed to two rounds with a promise that I will review them dynamically and try to increase them. Thereafter, he took my personal details on a form, and he said that some body from the temple would get in touch with you (though it might take some time) and hand hold you towards understanding of the faith (that s what I took as a meaning, though he didn't literally say it). He then said that he had to leave for his chanting.

He left, and I was there in the temple premises for some more time. After that temple another aarti started (pardon me I have forgotten the name now). I attended all of it, at the end of the aarti the devotees took the parikrama / rounds around the temple three times singing and dancing to the name of the lord. It all seemed surreal to me, people dancing / singing / some of them crying and I thought that you being a devotee should also visit Vrindavan and be blessed. I pray that you get an opportunity soon. Subsequently, I had breakfast which was french fries and fried peas.

Then we left for Delhi and reached back home in two and a half hours. Since the time I have been back, the scene of devotees dancing / singing / crying continuously has been flashing before my eyes. I think finally the lord has given me the opportunity to serve him . Just wanted to share all this with you because you have been of great help all through, you have clarified so many doubts and helped me.

V